New expansion :o?

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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Ixirar on Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:52 pm

Humans have mages and warlocks.

Gnomes has mages and warlocks.

Draenei has mages.

Night Elves are allied to all of those, including the mages and locks. Why would the Highborne be any different? I mean, I can't imagine that the sentinels would be happy about human, gnome and draenei mages or warlocks prancing around their city, just as they wouldn't be happy about Highborne mages.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Shiandra on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:10 pm

Exactly my point :s
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Tenethion on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Shiandra wrote:It doesn't really matter where they put them. In order for this to work, the returning Highbornes would have to keep a low profile when going to Kalimdor. We (the Kaldorei) hate the Sindorei with a passion because of their use and addiction to the arcane power, the (traditional) Kaldorei hate (or at least dislike/distrust) mages and warlocks - why should the Highborne be any different? Would you just roll over and accept if Blizz decided to make the Sindorei an Alliance race? Or the Naga? (Or the Murlocs? ^^).

My recentment to these changes comes from a strong belief that role-playing becomes better when there are restrictions. Restrictions encourage adaption and imagination. If everybody can be anyone and do anything without any restrictions the game becomes too uniform (boring). I'd love to see a Darnassus with no access for Alliance arcane wielders - a Cathedral square with no access for Deathknights - more (different) race specific classes - more race specific weaponry and armor (could work like the mounts - only available to exalted characters of other races) - let the druids communicate cross-faction using Druidic. These suggestions are not wanted by the majority of players - either because they are not role-players and don't really give a whoot about RP or because they don't want the hassle of having to do some real role-playing to actually achieve things. To me it would mean a more "real" world, but alas... a real world is not desired...

I know we'll never agree on these things... too many minds to fully agree on everything. I just find that killing diversity for the sake of common mammon is a great shame.






/agree
couldn't have put it better ^^
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Adelaine on Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:48 pm

If we did stick with the lore hardly any night elf would be outside Kalimdor and those that where would either be with the Cenarion Expedition in outlands or . We can't do that though because if we forced night elves to keep to Kalimdor the players wouldn't be happy. We also have to accept that the majority are not RPing all the time even on RP servers so even if we can choose to limit ourselves to preserve immersion not everyone will and most RPers will go to the central place for all RPers instad of staying appart. While it's a shame there is nothing really wrong with that either. So since we can't limit the players too much we have to allow them to run all over Stormwind and do a lot of things strict lore following wouldn't allow them to do. So the best we can hope for is to limit these oversteps and explain the ones that can be explained.

We simply have to adapt to the game and the new lore because the game surely won't adapt to us nor do I think it would work if it did. Don't get me wrong I hate some changes too, I try to pretend I never heard of anyone named Rhonin for example and many of the things in the new expantion sounds horrible if true but I don't think the highborne is one of them. Considering all the changes that has been made in wow the night elf people are hardly the same as they where in Warcraft 3. Their way of life gone down the drain and they been through a change witch size has not been seen for 10.000 years. It's not that strange to imagine they changed as well and that they are forced to do things they would never considered before the last war. So in the end I can't say I'm fully happy with the highborne coming back either if they are but at least this thing makes a tiny bit sense unlike many other lore changes that been done.

Besides because we can't communicate with the other side sometimes players choose more strict limitations then what was shown in Warcraft 3. Tyrande interacted with a lot of people that many RPers would claim we should all kill on sight. While I do support some limitations (because I never want to see playable dragons or the like) I think we just have to work with what we have and try to keep a somewhat open mind to changes.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Alagien on Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:44 am

Adelaine wrote: (because I never want to see playable dragons or the like) .


:O

Noooooo!
I really would love to play a dragon....kin!
No, not a full sized dragon, but those humanoid guys? hell yeah ^^

As for the changes, well, WoW has always been a "gameplay first ,lore second" kind of game. It has been like that from day 1 and it has not changed. While I too would like to have RP servers with slightly different rules (for example have inter faction communication, maybe limited to /say and /yell), I also understand why such changes are not feasible to appease a very limited number of the population (just compare rp servers to non rp... and count all non rpers on rp server too).

Honestly, however, the old world was in dire need of a upgrade. so if they do that, and do it well, I am happy. Heroic Deadmines ftw!
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Säila on Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:02 pm

I have thought and always will think that all of race /class rescrictions etc are bad and do more harm to creativity than they achieve. Only classes could possible have reasons for race resrictions are the ones with that actually have reasons why only some reasons can learn their powers/abilities. In wow there currently are no such classes. There is nothing stopping for example orc from learning druidic arts apart from maybe finding suitable teacher. Sure, orc druids would be very very very very rare, but quess what? Player characters are EXCEPTIONS. After level 20 player characters start to be well above what majority of the people in the world will ever reach, since players are supposed to be MINORITY.

Race specific items? What would be stopping my DK from using human only sword for example? THe fact noone will seel those to me? Perhaps I could have just picked one up as souvenir after a campaign? Race specific mounts? same thing.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Nayan on Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:41 pm

Säila wrote:I have thought and always will think that all of race /class rescrictions etc are bad and do more harm to creativity than they achieve. Only classes could possible have reasons for race resrictions are the ones with that actually have reasons why only some reasons can learn their powers/abilities. In wow there currently are no such classes. There is nothing stopping for example orc from learning druidic arts apart from maybe finding suitable teacher. Sure, orc druids would be very very very very rare, but quess what? Player characters are EXCEPTIONS. After level 20 player characters start to be well above what majority of the people in the world will ever reach, since players are supposed to be MINORITY.

Race specific items? What would be stopping my DK from using human only sword for example? THe fact noone will seel those to me? Perhaps I could have just picked one up as souvenir after a campaign? Race specific mounts? same thing.

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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Shiandra on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:29 am

Can't agree that race / class restrictions harm creativity. I believe it encourages creativity (at least RPwise) when you need to figure out how to get around the restriction if you need to. DKs entering Stormwind covertly to avoid the anger and resentment of the general public -the previosly mentioned arcane power wielders with no "official" access to Darnassus.

Can't agree that player characters are exceptions either. That might be the intent and I -can- agree on some level, but in actuality player characters are not really exceptions in a game like this. When everybody becomes someone special, what's so special about the individual? Orc Druids for instance should, as you say, indeed be very very very very rare, but if / when they allow Orcs to become druids, they'll probably become just as regular as other druids.

Race / Class specific items: Some already exist. How come your Death Knight doesn't wield the Paladin Hammer (Verigan's Fist)? Any class might wield any weapon or item, but why would they, if the weapon/item doesn't fit the class?... or race (how Gnomes are able to swing those humongous two-handed swords that are longer than themselves, is beyond me) Because they're special? Again... if everybody does it, it's not really that special.

I think we have fundamentally different views on role-playing and this game. I'd like people to really consider their faction, race and class before creating a character. The way things are going they won't have to consider race at all, since all races can become all classes. I also like to be challenged into creating/forming my character so that it fits the restrictions and limitations of the gameworld instead of having a game where I can do anything I like without considering the gameworld at all. I'm old-school P'n'P... that might have something to do with it. I just don't like the direction this game is going in.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Säila on Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:03 pm

Shiandra wrote:Can't agree that race / class restrictions harm creativity. I believe it encourages creativity (at least RPwise) when you need to figure out how to get around the restriction if you need to. DKs entering Stormwind covertly to avoid the anger and resentment of the general public -the previosly mentioned arcane power wielders with no "official" access to Darnassus.

I don't see what DKs entering Stormwind covertly or or arcane doing same to darnassus have anything at all to do with race/class restrictions.


Can't agree that player characters are exceptions either. That might be the intent and I -can- agree on some level, but in actuality player characters are not really exceptions in a game like this. When everybody becomes someone special, what's so special about the individual? Orc Druids for instance should, as you say, indeed be very very very very rare, but if / when they allow Orcs to become druids, they'll probably become just as regular as other druids.

The game assumes that level 80 characters have killed Vashj. After certain level the npcs start treating the PC as a hero. A properly geared level 80 is able to one-on-one with the champions of the Lich king. Yes higher level players are ment to be little special from games point of view.



Race / Class specific items: Some already exist. How come your Death Knight doesn't wield the Paladin Hammer (Verigan's Fist)? Any class might wield any weapon or item, but why would they, if the weapon/item doesn't fit the class?... or race (how Gnomes are able to swing those humongous two-handed swords that are longer than themselves, is beyond me) Because they're special? Again... if everybody does it, it's not really that special.

Indeed race class specific items exist. Ever since I realised I was stuck with badly itemisised hybrid leather gear and unable to use cloth pvp for my balance druid, I have hated those resrictions with passion :P
Again, I don't see why my Death knight not being able to wield hammer designed for Paladins helps RP.


I think we have fundamentally different views on role-playing and this game. I'd like people to really consider their faction, race and class before creating a character. The way things are going they won't have to consider race at all, since all races can become all classes. I also like to be challenged into creating/forming my character so that it fits the restrictions and limitations of the gameworld instead of having a game where I can do anything I like without considering the gameworld at all. I'm old-school P'n'P... that might have something to do with it. I just don't like the direction this game is going in.


When I start designing a character I start with a concept. I then tool that concept to match the campaign setting. Race/class restrictions destroy many concepts that would have fitted wow lore immensly. Why can't my nelf have practiced arcane magic in secret for millenia (mage)? Why can't my dwarf have started worshipping elementals that live under the mountain and channel their power? Why can't my Blood elf have mastered the way of martial combat without using light (warrior)? Why can't my human master using ranged weapons (hunter)? Class names are just arbitary labels that help creating concepts.

And secondly, its not like Class/race resrictions force those people who don't consider gameworld to start considering it. It just makes them and some of us annoyed.

And yes, one could consider me an oldschool PnP, been playing pnp rpgs for over 12 years.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Säila on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:31 pm

If dozens of post that litter the first page of wow general forums are to be believed, the rumours were right.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Säila on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:38 pm

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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Elysar on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:54 pm

\o/

considers buying a month of gametime when this comes out ^^
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Adelaine on Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:27 pm

So... the world is going to blow up. Everything will get shacken badly and horde will invade Ashenvale. Seems the night elves are going to be screwed over quite a lot. What do you all think our place in all this will be? xD
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Tenshylwin on Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:30 pm

just watched that trailer and... I am honestly dissapointed.

Tauren paladins? Troll druids? WORGENS?!
And Deathwing is back..? What the ... I don't know if I should be happy or cry about this.

I for one doesn't like that expansion.
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Re: New expansion :o?

Postby Tenethion on Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:03 pm

I've warmed up to the whole thing. Really excited for it :D
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